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发表于 2018-1-13 20:57:35 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

社区昵称:luvian47 资料 加好友 聊天 库存 截图 好友 群组 愿望单 评测 信誉+0/-0

本帖最后由 luvian 于 2018-1-13 21:00 编辑

以下内容来自于CA20180113的日志,可以看出CA是怎么理解三国的,也可以初步判断三国全战会是个什么样子。字太多不准备翻译了,摘录原文然后最后面给大家做个中文摘要吧。


This article was sponsored by The Creative Assembly.
The Early Three Kingdoms Period in ancient China, from 184 CE to 190 CE for the purposes of this article, was one of the most turbulent in China’s history. With an ailing Han government unable to control its empire, brutal localised wars, rebellions and uprisings were rife. The capital would soon fall, followed by the Han dynasty itself, split asunder by rival dynastic factions at court, scheming eunuchs, and intractable Confucian literati. The order of the Emperor’s rule was replaced by the chaos of competing warlords, men such as Dong Zhuo, Lu Bu, and Cao Cao, all ruthless and possessing one ambition: to alone rule all of China.   

Dong Zhuo & Lu Bu

The period has long captured the public imagination beginning in the Sung Dynasty (960-1279 CE) and reaching a fever pitch of interest with The Romance of the Three Kingdoms (Sanguo yanyi), a historical novel written during the Ming Dynasty, either in the 14th or 15th century CE. Attributed by some to Luo Guanzhong, the romanticised and much-embroidered version of events has created lasting cultural heroes and sometimes even figures of worship such as Liu Bei, the Confucianist ruler of the Shu state, and his general Guan Yu, who became the God of War, Guan Di, as well as Sun Quan, the founder of Eastern Wu. The novel covers China’s history from 168 CE to 280 CE and remains wildly popular today, inspiring films, theatre, literature, and computer games.
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The Decline of the HanThe Han dynasty had been ruling China since 206 BCE as its most successful dynasty yet. Still, by the 2nd century CE, the emperors were facing troubled times. The central government, dominated by a secretive Inner Court with access to it strictly controlled by the scheming court eunuchs, was ever-more remote from the affairs of the everyday people in the provinces. Rebellions had already popped up in the 140s CE when they had been dealt with by sending officials to bribe local strongmen. No longer commanding an army of significance, the emperor could do little more.
It was the individual commanders in the field who earned the respect & loyalty of their troops - a mix of professionals, convicts, & local tribesmen.
The military forces still under a token allegiance to the Han rulers were permanently stationed on the frontiers, and they had little motivation to remain loyal to their distant commander-in-chief. The Han decision to change the age-old policy of giving only temporary commands of armies for specific campaigns and then recalling generals back to the capital before they got any big ideas would be a fateful one.
It was the individual commanders in the field who earned the respect and loyalty of their troops - a mix of professionals, convicts, and local tribesmen - and not the distant and never-seen emperor. The fact that they received their pay directly from their commander, no doubt, had much to do with this transfer of allegiance. As one local landlord noted:
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Orders from the provincial and commandery governments arrive like thunderbolts; imperial edicts are merely hung upon the wall as decoration. (Lewis, 27)
Meanwhile, the peasantry at large was suffering from the usual and sadly regular natural disasters that beset China, especially floods and earthquakes, as well as the ongoing war with the people known as the Xianbi. The Xianbi, north of the Great Wall, felt threatened by Chinese expansion and, while they valued Chinese luxury goods through trade and at first welcomed interaction, they came to value their freedom more highly. As Xianbi resistance to Chinese encroachment grew, the Chinese government simply sent more and more military expeditions against them. This policy contributed greatly to undermining imperial authority because so few gains were apparent when compared with considerable losses.

China Warlords, 2nd-3rd century CE.

Little was or could be done to improve the lives of the peasants because the state coffers were emptied by these unsuccessful wars against the Xianbi who, in 177 CE, led the Chinese army into an ambush in the northern steppes which was so successful that “three quarters of the men failed to return” (De Crespigny, 5). Further, the fact that tax was all too often avoided or syphoned off by corrupt officials complicated the lives of the peasantry even more.
Regional governors had to find their own way of raising revenue, and there was no guiding policy handed down from the capital. Locals had only one course of action: arm oneself as best as possible for self-defence. Landlords with the means to do so organised their own private armies, recruited from their tenants and local farmers. Those who could not rely on a rich benefactor fled to the hills or elsewhere - resulting in large-scale migrations and attendant instability - and sometimes even whole villages relocated to higher ground where they surrounded themselves with fortifications and hoped for the best. China was very quickly becoming a free-for-all.   
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The Yellow Turban RebellionIn the final two decades of the 2nd century CE, the steady decline of the Han and the now constant rumblings of provincial discontent suddenly burst out of control with one of the most serious and long-lasting rebellions ever witnessed by shocked Chinese rulers and quivering local bureaucrats. The Yellow Turban Rebellion exploded in 184 CE, led by the charismatic Taoist mystic Zhang Jue (died 184 CE), and wreaked havoc on the land.
A popular religious movement, the Yellow Turban cult was closely associated with Taoism. Amongst its more appealing principles was the belief that illness came from sin but, especially good news to a peasantry short on medicines, diseases could be removed by confession of those sins. The rebellion was so called because the protagonists wore a turban whose colour represented earth, an element they identified with and which they hoped would put out the fire element associated with their enemy the Han.
Taoist philosophy understood the workings of the universe through the operation of the principle of Yin-Yang and the interaction of the Five Elements: earth, wood, metal, fire, and water. Above the five elements was Tian (heaven) which was represented by the color blue. Taoism was favored by most of the Han emperors and, when the Han first came to power, they associated their dynasty with heaven/blue but at some point changed to earth/yellow and, by the time of the Yellow Turban Rebellion, claimed rule by the power of fire/red. These changes in association with the elements may have to do with the focus of the dynasty at different times but this is unclear.
It is an interesting aspect of the rebellion that, philosophically, the two sides were operating from the same principles of Taoism and the same understanding of what was right and true. The Han claimed justification for rule based on the same principles the rebels were espousing to overthrow them but Zhang Jue and the rebels insisted they were fully justified in that they were identified with the earlier principle of earth/yellow which they claimed the Han had forsaken and betrayed in favor of fire/red.
The Yellow Turban’s popularity began in the east, & it quickly spread, helped by a turn towards politics & the promotion of aid to the poor.
In this, the rebels were invoking the spiritual concept ofjiazhiwhich had to do with the fundamental value of an individual or action. Thejiazhi (literally “worth” or “value”) of the earth - represented by the rebels - was claimed by them as inherently more powerful - and just - than that of their adversaries. By invokingjiazhi in their struggle, the rebels hoped to not only justify their cause but attract more support for the Yellow Turban Rebellion.
The movement’s popularity began in the east, and it quickly spread, helped by a turn towards politics and the promotion of aid to the poor. The movement was vociferous in its criticism of the discrimination against women and the lower classes, which was rife in Chinese society. The cult eventually turned into a major military rebellion, which was rather ironic considering its leader Zhang Jue preached the objective of a Great Peace. The Yellow Turbans were organised into military units and prepared for action. Local government offices were targeted and smashed by the rebels across China. The rebellion seemed to crop up everywhere like cancer - out of control and fatal for the regime. Sixteen commanderies succumbed to the rebels, imperial armies were defeated, rulers kidnapped, and cities captured.

Han Dynasty Sword

The whole of the country was now split into pockets held by rebels, warlords, or regional governors still loyal to the state. The confusion, constant warring, and deprivation of the Chinese people were summarised in a poem attributed to the warlord Cao Cao (c. 155-220 CE), who, like many leaders of the period, had a serious literary bent.
My armour has been worn so long that lice breed in it,
Myriad lineages have perished.
White bones exposed in the fields,
For a thousand li not even a cock is heard.
Only one out of a hundred survives,
Thinking of it rends my entrails.
(Lewis, 28)   
The rebellion was brutally quashed within a year by an army sent by Cao Cao, then one of the Han emperor Lingdi’s (r. 168-189 CE) foremost generals. Cao Cao had managed to organise a military coalition of the private armies of important nobles at court, and he moulded them into an efficient professional fighting force. The rebel leader Zhang Jue was either killed in battle or executed. The rebellion would, though, rumble on, albeit more quietly, under new leadership in eastern Sichuan province. The damage had been done, though, and now there was very little difference between local governors and local warlords right across China. The Han had dropped the reins of power in the provinces.
Cao CaoCao Cao had started his career as a commandant and police chief at the Han capital Luoyang during the 170s CE. He early-on established a reputation for being a stickler for the law and was not afraid to challenge the rich and powerful. Cao Cao is portrayed as a deliciously Machiavellian villain in later literature, and Chinese operas, too, cast him as a thoroughly nasty piece of work, with actors portraying the dictator usually wearing a snarling white mask with sinister eyebrows. Indicative of the dubious reputation of the warlord, his name lives on in the Chinese expression “Speak of Cao Cao and he appears” which is broadly equivalent to “Speak of the devil” in English.

Cao Cao

There were many other military leaders besides Cao Cao, though, as an unfortunate consequence of the Yellow Turban Rebellion was that several local warlords had been backed by the emperor to raise their own armies and deal with the Yellow Turbans in their particular region. When the rebels were dealt with, these armies then clashed with each other and there followed a sustained period of civil war during which the capital at Luoyang was sacked by one Dong Zhuo (189-192 CE).
Dong ZhuoDong Zhuo, aka Zhongying, was a frontier general turned warlord based in the northwest of China. He had a long military career, working up the ranks from his starting point as a member of the imperial guards; Zhuo’s unit was the elite corps, the Gentlemen of the Feathered Forest, whose members were composed of sons and grandsons who had lost their fathers in battle. Zhuo was exactly the kind of Han general described above - permanently stationed on the frontiers for a decade and left to his own devices.
He was recalled to court in 189 CE but refused on the grounds that his men not only needed him but had forcibly pulled back his carriage and would not let him go. He was fully aware of their loyalties to him alone, as he stated in the following extract from a letter to the court:
My soldiers both great and small have grown familiar with me over a long time, and cherishing my sustaining bounty they will lay down their lives for me. (Lewis, 262)
In 189 CE, taking full advantage of the chaos and responding to the call for assistance by the court’s “Grand General” He Jin, half-brother of He, the Empress Dowager, Zhuo moved to within 110 km (70 miles) of Luoyang. At the imperial court, high-ranking officials and military leaders, tired of the ineptitude of government and dominance of the eunuchs, were forced into action when He Jin was murdered in the palace. They thus conspired to assassinate all 2000 of the eunuchs who had been pulling the strings of power for so long.

Chinese Terracotta Warrior

The perpetrators of the coup then made the monumental miscalculation of inviting Zhuo into the city, which then had a population of around 500,000. This the warlord did with relish, burning the capital’s wooden buildings to the ground (including the library and state archives), and kidnapping the young emperor Shaodi. Zhuo was far from his base in the west, though, and so he withdrew, emperor in tow, back to Chang’an. The former Han capital, surrounded by mountains, was a much more easily defendable headquarters. It would take a long time before Luoyang rose again, its sad abandonment noted here a century after Zhuo’s attack by the poet Cao Zhi:
Luoyang, how lonesome and still!
Palaces and houses all burnt to ashes.
Walls and fences all broken and gaping.
Thorns and brambles rising to the sky.
(Lewis, 101)
Dong Zhuo, meanwhile, enjoyed his success. A thorough scoundrel, if later sources are to be believed, Zhuo would go down in history as a mad despot, as this oft-quoted passage from The Romance of the Three Kingdoms reveals:
On one occasion Dong Zhuo spread a great feast for all those assembled to witness his departure; and while it was in progress, there arrived a large number of rebels from the north who had voluntarily surrendered. The tyrant had them brought before him as he sat at table and meted out to them wanton cruelties. The hands of this one were lopped off, the feet of that; one had his eyes gouged out; another lost his tongue. Some were boiled to death. Shrieks of agony arose to the very heavens, and the courtiers were faint with terror. But the author of the misery ate and drank, chatted and smiled as if nothing was going on. (167)
A Broken ChinaThe destruction of Luoyang was another serious blow to the already toppling Han government. Men like Cao Cao and Zhou would continue to battle for control of China and the right to pull the strings of the puppet emperor who remained so necessary for whoever wished to claim a legitimate right to rule. The chaotic Three Kingdoms period witnessed the total break up of China and the country would not be reunified for another three centuries.

中文摘要如下:
1,文章,或者说剧本的时间,聚焦在中囯古代的三国早期,从公元184年到公元190年。

2,"这个时期早在公元,960年至公元1279年就已经引起了公众的关注,并在明代写成了“三国演义”。(这里证实了玩家观看宣传片后的猜测,CA基本确定会采用三国演义的历史观来制作游戏。)罗贯中赋予了历史一些浪漫绚烂的事件,形成了中囯持久的英雄文化,例如蜀国的儒家统治者刘备和成为战神的关羽——关帝,以及东吴的创始人孙权(原文如此)"

这里可以看出CA这个剧本应该还是以三国演义为蓝本,刘备或者说孙刘联盟是CA承认的大义所在,后文对曹操——说曹操曹操到就像是谈论恶魔一样,董卓——有些人被煮死了,痛苦的尖叫声响起来,朝臣们惊惶失措,但悲剧的始作俑者依然谈笑风生。这些描写都表明了曹操和董卓在CA史观里应该是作为boss存在,虽然未必不可选择。

3,CA在此文中贴了张公元2-3世纪的中囯地图,私以为他们就是参照这玩意做大地图的吧。。


4,叛乱是一个有趣的方面,从哲学上讲,黄巾之乱和道教的运作方式都是相同的,对真实的理解是一致的。(可以预计会有黄巾起义之类中囯特色的叛军方式)


5,CA用2个专门的篇幅描述了曹操和董卓,可以看出这两个应该是预定的大BOSS的存在,上面的地图也可以看出这一点,事实上,我很想吐槽讨董的时候曹操和刘表哪来的那么大地盘,怕不是CA活在梦里。



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Jump in

发表于 2018-1-13 21:08:04 | 显示全部楼层

社区昵称:深呼C 资料 加好友 聊天 库存 截图 好友 群组 愿望单 评测 信誉+5/-0

不用多说了,我买!
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发表于 2018-1-13 21:11:18 | 显示全部楼层

社区昵称:treming2009 资料 加好友 聊天 库存 截图 好友 群组 愿望单 评测 信誉+0/-0

感觉按CA之前做幕府时的尿性,能做到这些历史观已经达到他们的能力极限了。
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老屬老屬-天邈

『天邈云渺』『喵科色谱』『七步之遥』『片十字花瓣』

发表于 2018-1-13 21:11:51 | 显示全部楼层

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本帖最后由 eason001 于 2018-1-13 21:16 编辑

反正就我看预告的观感来说
1.该作应为三国1,时间截止虎牢关,原版包含虎牢之战剧本,dlc追加黄巾之乱剧本,三国2将会加入东吴势力,三国3将会引入司马懿夺权。
2.虎牢关人妻曹莫名装逼,判断应为预购三国1赠送曹操dlc,预测应有“十七路诸侯”dlc:袁绍dlc、袁术dlc、孙坚dlc、孔融dlc、公孙瓒dlc、马腾dlc、陶谦dlc......
3.关二张三步战马中吕布,判断应有坐骑dlc,预测应有“人中赤兔”dlc:赤兔dlc、的卢dlc、绝影dlc、爪黄飞电dlc、乌云踏雪dlc、照夜玉狮子dlc......

点评

已经达到P社的感觉了  发表于 2018-1-14 09:33
明天飞来英国上班  发表于 2018-1-13 23:32
哈哈就看到满屏的DLC  发表于 2018-1-13 22:27
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发表于 2018-1-13 21:23:14 | 显示全部楼层

社区昵称:快回深圳请波皇! 资料 加好友 聊天 库存 截图 好友 群组 愿望单 评测 信誉+0/-0

The whole of the country was now split into pockets held by rebels, warlords, or regional governors still loyal to the state. The confusion, constant warring, and deprivation of the Chinese people were summarised in a poem attributed to the warlord Cao Cao (c. 155-220 CE), who, like many leaders of the period, had a serious literary bent.
My armour has been worn so long that lice breed in it,
Myriad lineages have perished.
White bones exposed in the fields,
For a thousand li not even a cock is heard.
Only one out of a hundred survives,
Thinking of it rends my entrails.
(Lewis, 28)   
这里引用的是曹操的《嵩里行》最后三句
原文:关东有义士,兴兵讨群凶。

初期会盟津,乃心在咸阳。

军合力不齐,踌躇而雁行。

势利使人争,嗣还自相戕。

淮南弟称号,刻玺于北方。

铠甲生虮虱,万姓以死亡。

白骨露於野,千里无鸡鸣。

生民百遗一,念之断人肠。

点评

这个翻译“里”太粗暴了 鬼佬看得懂?  发表于 2018-1-13 23:33

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一个被粉枪嫌弃的萌新

『片十字花瓣』『滴学生卡』

发表于 2018-1-13 21:29:10 | 显示全部楼层

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人设看着有点别扭。。。
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咕了咕了

『片十字花瓣』

发表于 2018-1-13 21:47:03 | 显示全部楼层

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本帖最后由 伟大鱼塘 于 2018-1-13 21:50 编辑

孙策都已经占领江东大部分了,这地图肯定不是董卓讨伐战时期,至少是196年之后了。
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发表于 2018-1-13 21:56:40 | 显示全部楼层

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本帖最后由 zqq1111 于 2018-1-13 21:59 编辑

每當有提到人設美醜什麼的,就會讓我想到大內密探。

001.jpg


002.jpg
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 楼主| 发表于 2018-1-13 21:57:08 | 显示全部楼层

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eason001 发表于 2018-1-13 21:11
反正就我看预告的观感来说
1.该作应为三国1,时间截止虎牢关,原版包含虎牢之战剧本,dlc追加黄巾之乱剧本 ...

1,按照目前公布的第一个剧本六年,怕是CA预留了10个剧本DLC的位子看卖的情况出不出了

2,这个很有可能。但是从日志来看,应该是刘备赠送,其他要等DLC。

3,这个基本上不可能,吕布徒步可能是因为等级太低没解锁坐骑,CA惯例没有卖坐骑的习惯。如果是腾讯的倒是要担忧一下。
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 楼主| 发表于 2018-1-13 21:58:32 | 显示全部楼层

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伟大鱼塘 发表于 2018-1-13 21:47
孙策都已经占领江东大部分了,这地图肯定不是董卓讨伐战时期,至少是196年之后了。 ...

如果你要考据,曹操有这么大地盘的时候怕是董卓早就凉了。。。

刘表这辈子怕是都没有过这么大地盘。。。
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 楼主| 发表于 2018-1-13 21:59:17 | 显示全部楼层

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本帖最后由 luvian 于 2018-1-13 22:01 编辑
伟大鱼塘 发表于 2018-1-13 21:47
孙策都已经占领江东大部分了,这地图肯定不是董卓讨伐战时期,至少是196年之后了。 ...

另外CA自己说的,184-190年,然而图是公元2-3世纪。你要体谅英国人.,...
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此天之亡我,非战之罪也。

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再看看吧,我就关心游戏质量,真考据那肯定满足不了所有人


顺便兵种出dlc我是愿意买的


再说一句,你们这是再刁难我严白虎,我也要出dlc
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本帖最后由 伟大鱼塘 于 2018-1-13 22:08 编辑
luvian 发表于 2018-1-13 21:59
另外CA自己说的,184-190年,然而图是公元2-3世纪。你要体谅英国人.,...

这个没啥要考据的..我就顺着你说的第五条的吐槽说的啊..这地图基本就是袁术称帝刘繇病死那一年..至于CA怎么看无所谓了,对我来说游戏做得好玩就行..
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 楼主| 发表于 2018-1-13 22:09:02 | 显示全部楼层

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伟大鱼塘 发表于 2018-1-13 22:06
这个没啥要考据的..我就顺着你说的第五条的吐槽说的啊..这地图基本就是袁术称帝刘繇病死那一年..至于CA怎 ...

是的,支持
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 楼主| 发表于 2018-1-13 22:09:54 | 显示全部楼层

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非洲救世主 发表于 2018-1-13 22:02
再看看吧,我就关心游戏质量,真考据那肯定满足不了所有人

是的,只要他敢出,我就敢买,哪怕他把严白虎放到长安城(手动滑稽)
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eason001 发表于 2018-1-13 21:11
反正就我看预告的观感来说
1.该作应为三国1,时间截止虎牢关,原版包含虎牢之战剧本,dlc追加黄巾之乱剧本 ...

直接弄副三国杀就行了
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以喵之名 信仰之跃

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司马家呢
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CA这个地图应该是194年左右的,不过有些城的位置好像有点不对。
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luvian 发表于 2018-1-13 22:09
是的,只要他敢出,我就敢买,哪怕他把严白虎放到长安城(手动滑稽)

我也想看,请务必把严白虎放到长安城里
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此天之亡我,非战之罪也。

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luvian 发表于 2018-1-13 22:09
是的,只要他敢出,我就敢买,哪怕他把严白虎放到长安城(手动滑稽)

严白虎保卫战
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luvian 发表于 2018-1-13 21:57
1,按照目前公布的第一个剧本六年,怕是CA预留了10个剧本DLC的位子看卖的情况出不出了

2,这个很有可能 ...

我觉得 本体6年,剩下的可能是卖DLC或者视情况出2的时候再搞(比如全面战争战锤1&2)
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-------狂热聊天爱好者-------聊天加好友呀~

『片十字花瓣』

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老外的三国游戏,包括国内,也一般都是三国演义为基本的

如果制作组去贴吧看看大佬写过的各种帖子,我相信能把游戏弄得很好
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alienzhangyw 发表于 2018-1-13 22:28
CA这个地图应该是194年左右的,不过有些城的位置好像有点不对。

这时候的孙策已经占领江东大部分区域,肯定是在曲阿大败刘繇,以及破严白虎王朗之后了,怎么着也得196年往后了。
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发表于 2018-1-13 23:53:26 发自移动设备 - 你的掌上 SteamCN 社区 | 显示全部楼层

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期待更多内容。
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资本主义接班人

发表于 2018-1-14 00:26:29 | 显示全部楼层
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eason001 发表于 2018-1-13 21:11
反正就我看预告的观感来说
1.该作应为三国1,时间截止虎牢关,原版包含虎牢之战剧本,dlc追加黄巾之乱剧本 ...

一股暗耻的味道
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luvian 发表于 2018-1-13 21:58
如果你要考据,曹操有这么大地盘的时候怕是董卓早就凉了。。。

刘表这辈子怕是都没有过这么大地盘。。。 ...

当时交州名义上是尊刘表为主,后期尊刘备跟孙权,直到孙权掌握荆州,才派了一直小部队去交州,不过事实上交州一直处于独立割据状态
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这个地图的时期应该曹操与袁绍争雄,刘备投靠陶谦的时候
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本帖最后由 浑然天晨 于 2018-1-14 09:47 编辑

184年张角刚开始喊口号起义到190年迁都长安三国才开个头,后续觉得可以等DLC或者续作了.按照这段时间来看十常侍才应该是反派吧,往后才是董卓被推,曹人妻的的主戏
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那是不是应该尝试一下这个系列了~~~
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